Joystiq Quotes Non-Gamer's Initial Response To Wii: "Faggy"
You read that right. A writer at Joystiq put out, as is happening on gaming sites everywhere at this very moment, his first impressions of his actual very own Wii – from box, through setup, and into game play. Unfortunately the post in question relies principally on the infantile comments of the writer’s non-gaming roommate who, beyond his obvious decision to dislike the Wii before he saw the package opened, seemed content to toss out peevish asides rather than form discriminating observations.
That’s not a problem. People have half-assed responses to things they don’t much care about all the time. What’s alarming is that a Joystiq writer, ostensibly being paid for full-assed articles on things he does care about, saw fit to post such mature comments as:
“I don’t know what this thing is. You can’t tell from the box. The box is all faggy. It’s white and baby blue. It looks like a chick’s toy.”
“This just feels stupid. It feels like I’m holding my dick in my hand.”
“Everything feels cheap on this thing. This thing really looks like a hospital bed contoller.”
Obviously, it isn’t anybody’s negative opinion that concerns us; it’s the use of the word “faggy” as a pejorative, no matter how indirect the manner in which it’s used – or abused. There is a clear line of thought running through the article, just follow the word choice: “faggy…stupid…retarded…cheap…crap…” That a person might use “faggy” thus is neither remarkable nor newsworthy: such immature bigotry happens, unfortunately, everywhere. What’s significant is the writer’s decision to include the comment in his article – a decision that reflects defective judgment, social irresponsibility, and an apparent lack of concern for his own (perhaps deficient) professional integrity.
Read on, because there’s more. Oh, is there more!
You read that right. A writer at Joystiq put out, as is happening on gaming sites everywhere at this very moment, his first impressions of his actual very own Wii – from box, through setup, and into game play. Unfortunately the post in question relies principally on the infantile comments of the writer’s non-gaming roommate who, beyond his obvious decision to dislike the Wii before he saw the package opened, seemed content to toss out peevish asides rather than form discriminating observations.
That’s not a problem. People have half-assed responses to things they don’t much care about all the time. What’s alarming is that a Joystiq writer, ostensibly being paid for full-assed articles on things he does care about, saw fit to post such mature comments as:
“I don’t know what this thing is. You can’t tell from the box. The box is all faggy. It’s white and baby blue. It looks like a chick’s toy.”
“This just feels stupid. It feels like I’m holding my dick in my hand.”
“Everything feels cheap on this thing. This thing really looks like a hospital bed contoller.”
Obviously, it isn’t anybody’s negative opinion that concerns us – it’s the use of the word “faggy” as a pejorative, no matter how indirect the manner in which it’s used – or abused. There is a clear line of thought running through the article, just follow the word choice: “faggy…stupid…retarded…cheap…crap…” That a person might use “faggy” thus is neither remarkable nor newsworthy: such immature bigotry happens, unfortunately, everywhere. What’s significant is the writer’s decision to include the comment in his article – a decision that reflects defective judgment, social irresponsibility, and an apparent lack of concern for his own (perhaps deficient) professional integrity.
I feel, and we’ve been very careful to make sure that everyone here at GayGamer agrees, that this most definitely qualifies as homophobia. And I’d like to point out an important distinction between gradations of homophobia: there’s no hate crime here, there’s no brutalized gay teen, no rape or murder or violence; this is an instance of the kind of subtle homophobia that invades our language and creates an environment in which casual cruelty toward gays and lesbians is acceptable. That environment is what makes the truly threatening, sometimes lethal brand of homophobia less of an outrage. When words like “faggy” can be so glibly tossed about as synonyms for “bad” and “stupid,” it not only supports a mentality that puts gays at genuine risk by making homophobia more acceptable, it lowers our integrity as a whole: as gamers, as writers, or as human beings.
Now, anyone reading the article can see that the writer is going for a humorous “listen to this dismal jackass” angle, which is valid and might have been funny with better material and much better judgment. While the writer does disclaim that he is recording unedited quotes for the purpose of capturing first impressions, that neither absolves him of responsibility for the content of his article nor does it imply that the article is a complete transcript. Presumably, the writer chose which comments to include.
I’d also like to make one thing very clear: I am in no manner accusing Joystiq of homophobia. This discussion is a whole order of magnitude smaller, of one writer’s indiscretion and editorial oversight: the writer in question could be called homophobic, his roommate even more so, and the writer’s editors also bear responsibility – but perhaps it’s more appropriate to call the writer’s decision homophobic. I hope that’s the case.
Of course, we’re all interested in what you think of the Joystiq post, both in general and specifically in regard to the potentially homophobic content. Do you agree with our assessment? Regular Joystiq readers, does this change your feelings about their site? And we’d also dearly love to know what Joystiq’s “faggy” writer has to say about the issue: is there internal dialogue at Joystiq about this matter or other such ethical concerns? Are there potential consequences?
Whether Joystiq’s “faggy” Wii story infuriates you or not, if it’s no big deal or a reason for you to stop patronizing Joystiq entirely, we want to know. It’s important to have the discussion, and having such discussions is one of the reasons we’re all here.
Wii en la casa de Joystiq [Joystiq]
tiny dancer
Posted to Video Games on 11 November 2006 · Comments (82)
Other stuff like this: faggy, homophobia, joystiq, wii
Name: Dave
I’ve ranted about this before. People will say ‘gay’ as a synonym for stupid, and then tell you, “Oh, I don’t mean it like that”
Bullshit.
They just don’t want to admit that deep inside, they think being gay is kind of dumb. To them, it makes no sense. The fact that we are one of the only minorities that it’s safe to make fun of now doesn’t help.
Every time I hear someone I know talk like this I confront them about it. Make them think about their words.
I don’t know why anyone would room with such a negative hate filled douche. Poor Vlad must be hard up for friends.
While agreeing 100% with this article, I will say that “It feels like I’m holding my dick in my hand” doesn’t sound like an insult to me at all (although it is when combined with “This just feels stupid”). I know and am more comfortable with my dick than any thing in the world. I have great control over it and it is highly responsive. If the Wii control is as good as that, I’ll be buying on in a second!
This saddens me. I have to deal with this all the time at school – people will use terms like that in a derogatory way, and refuse to admit that what they did was subconsciously homophobic. It’s a huge problem, and not with any one type of people. All classifications of people have a majority who will use terms like ‘gay’ or ‘fag’ as something bad. Even a few homosexuals themselves have grown so accustomed to hearing this that when I point out their hypocrisy, they say, “Well, I didn’t mean it like that.”
I think that if we can get the sort of vigilance and awareness that we do on this blog and spread it throughout the other, non-predominantly-homosexual blogs, we’ll do gamers as a whole a service. If it becomes un-cool to use remarks like this, people will stop – and at this point, it’s largely in the hands of the internet.
Definitely don’t stop dealing with Joystiq. While this was a rather dumb decision on the part of the writer, people have gotten away with far, far worse. Since this blog deals with Joystiq on a regular basis, perhaps just a formal complaint would do; something to let him know that his roommate is a raving jackass.
I wish this world would grow the hell up, derogatory terms are unacceptable in any circumstance.
personally i think said poster from Joystiq is a wanker for that Wiiview. I mean, for one im not gay but i have GayGamer on RSS and check daily as i really enjoy reading the editorial and newsbits on the site and have for a while now. For an infantile jock to say the box looks ‘faggy’ is another prime example of why Joystiq continues to dive deeper and deeper down my list of sites i look at daily while this one climbs, thank you guys and gals for makin this place fun to visit!
Beyond the questionable premise of this article (someone who has been living with an alleged games journalist being entirely unaware of the Wii), this is a lot more disturbing than some kid on a forum going “teh wii is teh ghey lolz”.
“Gay” and “faggy” mean two different things. One is sometimes pejorative and sometimes neutral, and isn’t even necessarily a reference to someone’s sexual orientation; the other is always pejorative and I would go so far as to call it hate speech.
Joystiq would probably have been shut down already if the roommate had said, “Ha ha, this looks like something a nigger would play. Holding this controller makes me feel like a spear chucker.” But it’s still okay to pick on the faggots, I guess.
The “major Wii revelation” incident a few months ago, that ended with the firing of Robert Summa, removed a lot of Joystiq’s credibility as “gamer journalists” in my book. This removes a lot of their credibility as “human beings”.
Doubtless there are people whose response to this would be, “Eh, lighten up, faggot.” (I only got through the first 50 comments, so I’m only guessing.) I think their existence will demonstrate my point aptly.
I’ve noticed language like this being used in a lot of games forums. I’ve defiantly seen it on IGN, Joystiq and it’s FanBoy sites and Gamespot.
It really annoys me, because for a good it seemed like the term ‘gay’ was being used less often as a derogatory term (Outside of CS and WoW anyway). That might just have been me though.
Vlad Cole should have exercised some editorial sense. If that had been a report on a larger site (or in a real mag) he’d have been out on his ass for comment like that.
Joystiq just got deleted from my bookmarks. I never really visited them much, anyway.
That f-word should just be unacceptable, much like many racial slurs are (most obviously the n-word). For that writer from Joystiq to transcribe that quote without even a side note to the effect of “holy shit sorry about my degenerately offensive roommate” is, as tiny dancer says, homophobic.
I wrote the article. Thanks for the thoughtful response to it.
I completely agree that the use of “gay” in place of “lame” or “crappy” is puerile and wrong. I never use it myself, and have strenuously argued against it on many occasions.
It is, unfortunately, an adjective that many American males choose to use. The word choice in this case helps paint a fuller picture of the mentality of person making the criticisms, and thereby helps portray the hurdle Nintendo must climb if it hopes to gain acceptance amongst mainstream American males.
I would be very happy to see the use of “gay” in negative contexts eliminated. However, social activism is not on my agenda as I write for Joystiq. I’m not going to simply change someone’s quote to suit my tastes.
Note that I also included my roommate’s use of “dick” and “fucking,” though I replaced the latter with “f—-ing” in the interests of keeping things relatively clean. I would have done the same if the word used were “nigger” (i.e., I would have replaced it with “n—-er.” Capturing an accurate quote was my first goal.
Is the negative use of “gay” to the point where we should be replacing it with “g-y” or “g—”?
Would the complete elimination of the quote have significantly changed the meaning and tone of my roommate’s comments? I think it would have. I think that cleansing of the quotes would have resulted in significant removal of meaning and context.
The post is better for its authenticity and accuracy.
You’ve got my email address listed at vladcole.net). Feel free to contact me if you want more color or commentary. Or if you simply want to yell at me.
He didn’t say “gay”, he said “faggy”. (Or at least, you reported it that way.) As I said above, there’s a difference. It’s the exact same kind of difference as there is between “black” and “nigger” (if there were an adjectival form of “nigger”.) You don’t write “b—-k”, but as you said, you would write “n——r”.
Both “gay” and “faggy” are equally bad, in my opinion. They’re both problematic for the same reason. Neither is an acceptable replacement for a negative adjective.
“raindog” wrote: ”[Gay] is sometimes pejorative and sometimes neutral.”
It’s not neutral. It’s not acceptable. You’ll never find me using this word.
Your clarity on this issue is suspect if you believe that the use of “gay” in place of a negative adjective is ever ok.
Chris with Joystiq here. It’s upsetting to me to read this diatribe against us and our “irresponsible” use of the word “faggy.” Like Vlad said, the word was a direct quotation. Whether or not you agree with that individual’s use of the word, or our decision to not censor it in reporting it, is one thing, but to say that this is somehow a sign of Vlad or the site’s editor (me) being homophobic is misplaced. I’ll direct you to a great essay on this very topic posted recently at … uh, Joystiq.
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/11/02/playing-dirty-thats-so-gay/
In addition, I would remind tiny dancer that Joystiq’s own Alexander Sliwinski is not only a staff writer at Joystiq, but also a contributor TO… uh, GayGamer.net!
this really makes me angry because i think that it’s very unfair. it’s unfair because we have never done anything to heterosexuals to make them hate us so much to make a word so popular that everyone who is cool uses it. i personally think that they are just too lazy to speak out the whole word “stupid”. i mean, when the word retarded became a huge craze, i’m sure that people with mental problems weren’t too happy about it. well, i have an idea. lets all start saying things like, “Shutup you breeder!” or, “That’s so straight.” i know that probably won’t help the situation, but this really does upset me.
Lert me ask a question of those from joystiq (and I ask this purely as part of the debate): If someone was discussing, say Def Jam: Fight for NY, and referred to it as a “n__ger game,” would you write it as such?
Joystiq’s comments here defending their “quotes” on someone else’s words is as ignorant and dangerous as any neo-nazi group proclaiming their right to be racist and xenophobic with “freedom of speech”. If Joystiq’s writer doesn’t have an agenda, how come he would censor NIGGER and not FAGGY?
Joystiq…. one less reader here.. I was gonna forgive you for this one, but with the comment posted above…very irresponsible of you.
Another nail in the coffin this month for videogame web “journalism”.
“publishing” a slur is never a good call, quotation or not… the pope got in some well deserved shit for the same thing
On the other hand, there is another issue here.
I do remember a video by GayGamer on how Dead Rising is “So Gay” where the tone is used as any youngster today associates with the word “gay”, as in lame, uncool, etc.
My point then is my point now: is it Ok for us to make fun at ourselves and show everyone else how we make fun of ourselves, but its NOT alright for other people to do so, because its homophobic? I am not taking sides with Joystiq here: their comment up there on word censorship is homophobic to the bone. But I do remember not taking sides with GayGamer either on that video being posted on MTVOverdrive, as it was only fuelling these homophobic tones.
When did gay become sinonimous with lame? :-(
T.
Part of me doesn’t want to stir the pot any more…but the other part says, “Why not? It’s the internet.”
I agree that the roommate is a jackass. Almost everyone else on Joystiq’s talkbacks do as well. I also believe the author would have to be at least a partial jackass to stand living with someone like that. I also completely disbelieve that the roommate of a “video games journalist” would have never heard of the Wii, much less already have a taste of the journalist’s inital reactions to it.
But that’s all beside the point. I’m talking back at the bottom of an article about a word. Yeah, it’s crappy that this roommate uses that word. It’s crappy that alot of people do, but there are also alot of people who consider that use ignorant. That second group is prevelant, and completely in positive support of you. But whether or not the second group is correct, they don’t have the right to censor anyone. To put it mildly, I think it would be responsible journalism to quote the roommate if he had said that it was a “nigger system” or anything else offensive.
And all of this is still avoiding the age old debate of homosexuality being a choice or not. That discrepancy does differentiate the word “fag” from words like “nigger” and “chinker”. Races are genetic, and have nothing to do with choice. That is verifiable fact. Looking down on someone for something completely out of their hands is (for the most part) considered wrong. But people are allowed to look down on others for choices, and in this case it seems; even the possibility of choices. It’s a loophole. It’s why punk rockers hate jocks and vice versa. It’s why we can call southerners “rednecks” and “hillbillies”.
It sucks…but resorting to censorship isn’t the answer. If you believe in who you are, then be proud of who you are. But realize, there will always be people who resent you for it…no matter what “it” is.
I think what everyone is saying here is that “Gay” and “Faggy” are offensive words when used in a derogatory sense. To hide behind the fact that many American males choose to use “Gay” and “Faggy” as acceptable adjectives to describe something they don’t like, is crap. Vlad’s comment that he was trying to, “paint a fuller picture of the mentality of person making the criticisms.” Seems a little like sweeping up after an accident. So you broke a few plates, apologize, pay for the dishes and move on.
Semantics aside, this is about respect. Respect for other people who have to fight harder than their straight counterpart for what they achieve in life. That’s just a fact of being gay. To undermine our integrity with such irresponsible speech is shameful. Until we gain the respect of others, we will never achieve the same rights that every other straight American has in this country. Just be respectful to people you don’t understand or have no contact with. Understand that we are all human with the same wants and desires, and that speech is strong. Telling a small white box that it’s “faggy” says something stronger about the person, than the severity of the speech.
I think Dave Chappelle has shown us it’s entirely okay for the African American community to use the word nigger in a humorous context. Therefore it is just as acceptable for Fruit Brute to play on the gay stereotype in the Dead Rising video. It’s intent is clearly humorous and not meant in a hateful way. Unless the Joystiq author wants to come out of the closest here and claim his publishing the word “faggy” was intended humorously, he has propagated hateful speech in a very undignified manner. His comments here and the updates to his article on Joystiq do not justify such actions. They just merely speak to the arrogance of many, if not most, straight people when it comes to the defamation of gays and lesbians. The fact that his editor is trying to defend him only exaggerates the issue, and trying to hide behind Alexander will not excuse it. If it weren’t for tiny dancer’s post here, I’m sure the vast majority of people reading Joystiq would not have even noticed the inappropriateness of publishing such speech. After all the Sumpere Court has ruled that hate speech is NOT protected by the first amendment. I believe Joystiq should print a retraction and apology.
shambles, you wrote
“But people are allowed to look down on others for choices”
well, religion is a choice, but if you use the word “kike” or talk about “jewing someone”, that’s looked down on just as badly as a racial slur.so i don’t buy that reasoning. a slur is a slur..it all comes from the same dark, disturbing place.
The real question is: Is the Wii, in fact, faggy?
I felt this misconception needed to be cleared out. To one of the above posters who mentioned words like “faggy” and “gay” being different from “nigger” because race is not a choice, I feel it necessary to update you on the state of things. True,sexual orientation has not been scientifically verified to be purely biological or environmental, but all the respected medical and scientific associations have reached the conclusion that sexual orientation is by no means a choice. Sure, the origins haven’t been verified yet, but it still remains that sexual orientation is nontheless not a choice.
Also, sponsorship does not prevent you from being guilty of the occassional negligence. However,it is entirely up to the owners of Joystiq to decide whether or not they will choose to censor hate speech. I would deem it most appropriate to censor hate speech like most professional journals do, but it is only reasonable that Joystiq designs its policy as it sees fit.
I read this on Joystiq earlier today. The “faggy’ comment was rather immature but it was so lost in the avalanche of moronic statements made by that man. Nothing he said could be taken seriously considering what was coming out of his mouth. At the time the only thing I was thinking was, “This man sounds like an absolute joy to be around.” /sarcasm
.
People wonder why I always sever myself from the gay rights movement. I’m a transexual gamer as I stated when the first time this happened (the blood elf incident). People need to calm the fuck down.
1.People are saying gay as an insult. Get the fuck over it. When people say it they’ve used it to a point where it’s not even an insult at homosexuality anymore. It’s a generic statement. We don’t get pissy about “That’s so lame”, in fact we often suggest it as a “viable alternative”. But Lame means crippled. So it SHOULDN’T be ok. Get over yourselves.
2.He was transcribing a conversation, we are to assume, exactly how it went. It was not his job to interpret what was said, merely that it WAS said and as readers we get ti see exactly how it went. Joystiq is not meant for children, if it was they’d have to censor a whole lot of comments in there.
People in the gay rights movements are so goddamn thin skinned it’s no wonder no one takes them seriously. It’s just as bad as the women’s rights movement who feels the need to make a court case everytime someone makes a sexist joke. It’s all in good fun but it becomes perfectly ok to squash free speech over it because you are on a “crusade” to help you cause.
wow..i don’t know where to begin with that rant.
“it’s all in good fun?” are you kidding me? fun for who? maybe the person saying it…but usually not for the person at the receiving end. when does it stop being “all in good fun”, and turn into something worse? when someone uses words like “fag” and “homo” in my presence, should i just grin and bare it?
I don’t use the expressions ‘gay’ or ‘faggy’ myself but I know people who do and I can tell you I’m 100% sure these people aren’t homophobes! The expressions are certainly rooted in homophobia but I certainly don’t feel that for someone to use the expression with no such feelings that it qualifies as homophobia. I actually had this discussion with a gay person and they basically said that while they don’t like it that they do agree with me. But I’m in Australia, maybe things are a little different here.
I actually have developed a pretty bad habit of using gay in place of words like crappy or bad or other stuff like that. I’ve grown up exposed to the word being used that way and my own sexuality doesn’t seem to keep it off limits to me. I’ve been trying to lighten up on using the word like that though and it annoys me to no end when others use gay in a demeaning manner. Hippocrasy is fun… yay….
To clarify and amplify my previous points, since the Joystiq guys clearly missed them,
1. If the bigoted roommate had said, “This box is totally for niggers,” or “You’d have to be a real jewbag for this to appeal to you,” you would have undoubtedly edited it or your site would undoubtedly be gone soon. In fact, since the “interview” isn’t reproduced in full, you made the conscious editorial decision to include that word. But somehow printing a quote that calls something “faggy” is just responsible journalism, according to your defense. Why, it puts you in such great company as the New York Times, who only began referring to us as “gay” in 1990, preferring terms like “admitted homosexual” prior to that. Perhaps in years to come you’ll even reach the level of the Daily News… or, dare we hope, the Post.
2. If he had said something like, “This packaging would only appeal to blacks” or “This packaging looks like a gay guy made it”, while also possibly offensive to some, it would not have been said in deliberately hateful language. However, he did not say one of those things. He said “The box is all faggy.” And you guys printed it.
You can print what you want, because it’s a free country. And I can stop visiting you and other Weblogs, Inc. publications, and encourage my game and gadget-loving friends to do the same. I’ll miss Adjab and the Engadget podcast, but if it’s okay to use the word “faggy” when you’re not talking about a gay basher getting convicted, it’s not okay for me to support you. I wasn’t pissed off enough to do that when this story first hit, but now it’s clear I can’t abide your company’s policies.
I don’t think I’ll push this issue any further, because doing so will just create more buzz over the Joystiq article in question.
To address the “gamers use the word gay, get used to it” commenters not from Joystiq, I’m way ahead of you; see the thread about Gamefaqs in the forums. And again, the sentence in the Joystiq article reads, “The box is all faggy,” not “This box is pretty gay.”
Get over yourselves. there’s no need to censor everything just because you don’t agree with it.
The above posters have made some very excellent points, but I have to admit I cracked up when I read Albert’s post:
“The real question is: Is the Wii, in fact, faggy?”
Ragnarok, since nobody else has called you on your shit, allow me. Clearly you’re so desperate to “system beat” and be accepted as one of the guys that you’ve fully embraced your internalized sexism and homophobia. I applaud the women who have the courage to stand up and say sexist jokes have no place in the workplace. There’s a huge difference between not being able to take a joke and being subjected to so-called humor which demeans somebody who’s just trying to get her job done. Would you find it so funny if day after day your boss made hateful jokes about transpeople?
Some of us aren’t willing to accept the status quo. Some of us think the world can still change, that people are basically good and just need to be reminded when they’re wrong.
You say that the writer was merely doing his job, reporting exactly what was said. But what he was reporting was not the confession of a nuclear spy or the testimony of a killer, it was the feedback on a game consol. He included insulting, hateful language in an article about a game consol. I, for one, cannot fathom the value of this quote at all, and am amazed a professional writer would deem the quote necessary (which could potentially be hurtful to some) for the sake of reporting on a gaming system. Are you saying that he could have found no other way to express initial reactions to the system? Are you telling me that including the quote was vital to the article? That it helps readers in some way?
Complacency and silence only fosters ignorance and hate. I applaud Tiny Dancer and the crew and GayGamer for standing up for me and for our community and demanding the simple respect anybody might ask for.
Addendum: Ragnarok, I suppose I assumed you’re a transman, but if you’re actually a transwoman, I’m even more mystified.
Shambles, hon, if you think being gay is a choice, you need your head examined.
Also, people using “gay” as a negative makes me want to break their jaws, so imagine how people that use “faggy” make me feel : )
What’s the problem? Seriously. Its a word. In ten or so years, fag could mean a hair on your back. Maybe not even have any connection with “homosexuality”. “Its gay.” Yes, I use that word sometimes on a dime. Do I mean any harm to so-called “gay” individuals? Hell no. Why? Cause I sometimes think to myself at night, “I wonder that if I found a man who’d love me, hold me in his arms, and caress me better than any woman, would I love him back, emotionally and physically?” Sometimes the answer is a yes, most of the time its, “I don’t know…” Thus far, woman nor man am I emotionally attracted to. Most people turn me off, with their stupid conflicts over stupid things, ‘gay’ things, I’d say. Why ‘gay’? Because ‘gay’ means nothing to me. It is a stupid word that people threw around so long that now I use it on reflex, even though my own sexuality IS IN QUESTION BY MYSELF. Am I insulting myself? Or do I just not care? Who knows.
BTW, Shin Gallon, “Being Gay” IS a choice. Unless you’re only interested in sex.
I agree with your statements. The comment is homophobic and so is the decision to publish it. Homophobic language is directly responsible for the suicide of many potentially-gay teenagers. So there’s no excuse for it.
compare the statement to British National Party…those bastards, sorry b******s hate ‘fags’ (as im in the mood for some Joystiq style posting and dont actually mean to use the word as a derogative term)
The commentators/interviewee would feel right at home with that bunch of halfwits. check wikipedia and see what i mean
I know that people want to hide behind word games, but I really feel that it should be pointed out.
Retarded means slow or hindered. It was applied to the mentally handicapped because it fit, but the slow and hindered came first. So it doesn’t really fit as a defense.
Lame meant weak or inadequate and was applied to a crippled limb because that fit the meaning.
That isn’t what is happening here. Fag meant a bundle of sticks good for starting fires and was applied to gay people because they were burned at the stake way back when. I don’t think people are saying the Wii is faggy because the Wii is good at starting fires.
Gay meaning stupid didn’t come from the happy definition, it came from the more commonly understood homosexual definition. And while people want to hide from that fact, it doesn’t really alter the intent.
I don’t hate Joystiq for their quotes or anything like that, but we shouldn’t be in the habit of excusing the language used and try to hide or give the person an exit that they didn’t see themselves. We know how those things are meant.
“The real question is: Is the Wii, in fact, faggy?”
So what happens when you put two Wiis next to each other? Do they have sex?
(sorry for the silly comment, i couldn’t resist)
Tempest in a teabag.
In case you missed his counter-argument in case you missed it on Joystiq. I think it wins, boys and girls. But then, I didn’t give a damn to begin with.
===============
The folks over at GayGamer.net have picked up on the improper use of “gay” and “faggy” in the quotes above. We’ve linked to their post because it’s good to raise awareness of the fact that neither term is acceptable as a replacement for “crappy” or “lame,” despite the ubiquity of such usage within the group of core gamers. While we wish such language would never be used, it’s not our place to cleanse quotes. This is how (too) many in America speak. The New York Times has published the word “faggot” in 133 articles, has used the n-word in 935 articles, and has even used the less common “faggy” in five articles. It’s not just the NYT: many other reputable publications also publish these hateful words when they’re quoting someone in an article. Writers don’t take glee in repeating these things, but most of us do take pride in being careful with our handling of quotes.
GTJon: Are those NYT articles about the writer’s stupid roommate talking about video games, or are they about hate speech and prejudice? Printing disturbing content is justifiable if it is essential for the story. But printing the word “faggy” was not essential for the story. At all.
Zixaphir , you really don’t know what you’re talking about, do you? Because, y’know, I don’t recall ever making a concious decision to be sexually attracted to other guys, it just sorta worked out that way.
Please think before you speak, “gay” isn’t a lifestyle, and it certainly isn’t about acting like a walking stereotype.
I just assume when people call someone a fag or w/e they’re calling them a useless bundle of sticks…shrug
I play bassoon and all my music that’s in German or Italian says Fagotti or just Fag.
(modern composers tend to use Fg. or Bsn. lol)
I may not agree with what you’re saying, but I will defend to the death your right to say it – Thomas Jefferson
Debate over
Skorpyobrat: I am a Transwoman. So there goes your direct assault.
I never have a problem with hurtful jokes. Jokes are jokes, anyone who’s too thin skinned to take them needs a reality check.
He WAS in fact doing his job as a journalist. If you want to call the roomate a homophobe knock yourself out. But I maintain my stance that the writer was doing his job, he scribes things as they happen. He said NOTHING, yet you all feel the right to call him a homophobe. Even then, I still say people are far too angry over things such as words. Words don’t hurt, they shouldn’t. Remember that childhood rhyme, sticks and stones folks.
Richie: While most are about hate speech/discrimination (or, of course, quoting self-referential fags), not all are. Sometimes, it will be a case similar to what we see here- quoting someone else just to get attention.
“A warming morning late in October, and James (Bo) Gritz stands on a mountaintop in north-central Idaho, addressing the faggot press. His words.”
Bottom line: I’ve waited way too long to get superpowers to let some stupid syllable get them first.
... I got nothing.
The comments on both sides are enough to boggle my mind.
From what I can see, the person who wrote the article was putting his ignorant roommate on the spot by quoting him directly. I really don’t see why people are getting angry at the guy because he was doing what a journalist does. Not his fault his roommate decided to be a douchebag ( whoops, that might be offensive! ) and spout a buncha crap over something the guy was writing about.
Anyhoo, since I’m a triple minority ( gay, black, AND female ), does this mean I call myself a fagtastic negro carpetmuncher and get away with it? :[ Just askin’.
“Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me.” What makes you think that if hurtful words are spewed, there won’t be sticks and stones to compliment the gesture?
Ugh, bad typo’s,I meant “complement”.
a girl mouthed the word “fag” to me from her car. Her boyfriend and her were laughing at my gayness. I am not thin-skinned, but it bothered me simply for the fact that it was completely socially acceptable for her to do that. I don’t care who calls me what, but I would hate for her behavior to cause someone else harm. There are other guys who would be really hurt by something like that.
Shin Gallon… I put some thoughts into my statement as I slept last night, it was pre-mature. I put very, very little thought into it. I apologize. Though, I still think that to some extent it is a choice… just sometimes not a conscious one. Of course, my beliefs are… romance related. The question in my mind is more along the lines of “Would I give up MY sexuality, for love?” Of course, I’m not… physically attracted to other men, though… I don’t think I’m physically attracted to women, either. So… sorry about my unthought-out response. It was… immature of me.
Shin Gallon, lots of people do. Not trying to degrade or take lightly anyone’s lifestyle by furthering this discussion, but here’s an example: I am an artist. Some would say I was born an artist, but that’s not scientifically verifiable. I chose to begin sketching and practicing art, and I can choose to stop. It’s a lifestyle, but it’s not comparable to a race. No one chooses their race. It is an entirely passive factor in their life.
And no, I am not inferring that you should just “stop” being gay.
Shambles: Your argument, if I am understanding it correctly, doesn’t make much sense. Since we are using the analogy method here, allow me to add a few more. I was born in the USA, making me an American citizen. It wasn’t a choice, but I could choose to emigrate. I was raised in a protestant home. It wasn’t a choice, but I can choose to follow another religion or none at all. I was born with an attraction to other guys. It wasn’t a choice, but I can choose to ignore my sexual feelings and live a lie like Ted Haggard tried (and failed) to do. Anyone who honestly thinks homosexuality is a choice should, even if only for a moment, try the other side, homo or heterosexual, it doesn’t matter so long as it’s the opposite of their normal orientation. When it gets down to it, it just doesn’t work. Now what makes it complicated it that it’s not black and white. Very little is in life. There are degrees of bisexuality to be considered. Now someone who falls right in the middle, who swings fully either way, an argument could be made that they have a choice. However, although I have known some, genuine bisexuals are a rare breed. I’d argue that they are harder to find than gays. I myself have had sexual experiences with women. It was pleasurable, but when I examine who catches my eye walking down the street, ninety-nine percent of the time, it is a guy. If I try to play a game with myself and watch for attractive women, it never lasts longer than the next attractive guy I see. So even if I try to choose heterosexuality, an instinctual response interrupts it and bring me back to my natural, unchosen state.
The author of the original article (Vlad) could have done himself a favor by framing those tasteless comments: “Wii not for the ignorant”. Personally I thought the article was hilarious as it shows some fool who’s trying to assert his masculinity rather than play a game, and the wii is not really the macho system. I’m happy not to be in that guy’s company.
As for whether or not the journalist should have used f—gy or whatever, or merely not printed it, I think he did a good job of exposing some petty gender insecurities and how they relate to the gaming world. Its nice to see that nintendo isn’t catering to this market to the extent that the other systems are.
solution: grow up and dont read the article. the end.
Excuse me, but I identify myself as a person of the ‘craptastic’ mindset. I object to the usage of ‘crappy’ in this article, as it is a cut-and-dry example of crapophobia. It would be in your best interests to remove the slur from your article. Thank you.
I don’t subscribe to the ‘homosexuality is not a choice’ argument – or at least, not fully. For a lot of people, it IS, even if for the majority it is not. But that’s not the issue here.
Honestly, after reading the article, I think it’s a positive step, if a somewhat hesitant one. The roommate is viewed as an idiot, and it’s the idiot who uses the word pejoratively. Not including it would have detracted from the article, not added to it. This kind of usage is slowly disappearing from our culture, not growing, and attaching the usage of the word to the roommate makes him seem like more of a jackass, not anything else.
so is this officially the post with the most comments?
“The real question is: Is the Wii, in fact, faggy?”
I felt that we should get the answer to that question straight from the source! So I went to an EB games that had one on display and asked it. Here’s how the conversation went:
Pinky G: Well hello there, Wii. You’re looking mighty fine today. Excited about the upcoming launch?
Wii: Whrrrrrr.
Pinky G: Okay, I’ll stop beating around the bush. Wii, I have come here because inquiring minds need to know; Wii, are you, uh, “faggy”?
Wii: Whrrrrrr.
Pinky G: I know this seems kind of blunt, but people really want to know!
Wii: Whrrrrrr.
Pinky G: I’m sorry, don’t feel rushed, take your time to answer.
Wii: Whrrrrrr.
Pinky G: Well, don’t take too much time, I’d like to go home today.
Wii: Whrrrrrr.
Pinky G: I know this might be difficult, but there’s no reason to be ashamed.
Wii: Whrrrrrr.
Pinky G: ...
Wii: Whrrrrrr.
Pinky G: Well, I guess you aren’t comfortable telling me today, so I’ll just be on my way. I’m terribly sorry if I offended you.
Wii: Whrrrrrr.
As you can see, the Wii wasn’t very cooperative, and I think I may have offended it. It gives me these cold, unblinking stares whenever I walk by now, but hopefully it will give me a definate answer sometime in the future.
No, this is the 3rd highest number of posts so far. #2 and #1
this coming from Joystiq, I am far from surprised. I think I have read the most inflammatory garbage from that site than any other gaming site I go to. (which is generally around 5 or 6 a day.)
largely, it isn’t neccessarily the writers fault. a “fun filled” couple of hours on xbox live, and to only hear “faggy” would be a miracle unto itself. the issue is with the current state of hate mongering culture as a whole, to whom two men getting married destroys the sanctity of it, whereas Britney Spears can go on a bender, get married for less than 48 hours, and then get married AGAIN to divorce within a couple of years. marriage isn’t about love anymore; marriage is now about convenience.
plain and simple, until we are able to change the behavior of a largely immature populace, we’re going to continue seeing this happen.
This is somewhat off-topic, but I just wanted to say I’m so glad that GayGamer exists so that conversations like this can happen whenever an issue like this comes up. Talking about hate and hurt is the best way to get beyond it all in a meaningful way. And I hope everyone commenting here is using this opportunity to examine his or her own beliefs. I know I am.
I agree with Richie and his opinions about GayGamer and this thread. Still, it never ceases to amaze me that the silly arguement about whether or not homosexuality is a choice or not seems to work its way into almost any gay-based discussion.
I love the whole “it doesn’t bother me so it’s stupid that it bothers you” argument. Mainly because it shows us who should be baked into pies.
The pies will then be thrown away, uneaten.
It’s called reporting. The author wanted the pure, unadulterated, uncensored response of someone who’s not heard or seen a thing about Wii. And that’s what he got. That doesn’t mean that he (or I, for that matter) agrees, or thinks the use of the word faggy should or should not be allowed, it’s just what happened.
Say it with me: r-e-p-o-r-t-i-n-g.
hey aelfin…we’re not talking about serious journalism here…it’s an entertainment site.That’s not to say that entertainment sites can’t do serious journalism, but this post was not anywhere in that realm…it was meant to be a humorous, harmless piece about a new gaming console, and words like “faggy” are blatantly out of place.there’s a time and place for everything…and this was neither.
btw…your last comment…obnoxious
say it with me: o-b-n-o-x-i-o-u-s
“I don’t subscribe to the ‘homosexuality is not a choice’ argument – or at least, not fully. For a lot of people, it IS, even if for the majority it is not.”
Name them. Any of them.
As a born again homosexual, i am think i am of good authority to say, that the Wii infact is not faggy but very much a burly biker bear. I mean, come on, he beat up my old xbox. if thats not butch, i dont know what is.
Wii, the other gay meat.
p.s.
I loved that the “faggy” bit about the colors and cloudy-babysh girly-product (he’s imagining female hygiene, I bet) feel to it reflects the very same site’s.
Aelfin? Snicks? LOL. L-O-L. Got it memorized?
( Sorry. Couldn’t help myself. )
Joystick has been accussed of having been covertly paid off my Microsoft for favorable coverage, and they do do seem to be smearing the Wii in general.
They had a whole long post up about how “ZELDA falls flat”.
To me the big question is wether these gay comments are designed to turn off HArd-core gammers at MICRO-SOFTS intiative and wether the slander could be traced back to them.
But i’ve noticed Microsoft paying for favour is something they kept under wraps very well so i have low expectations of this commming up in any official web site coverage.
Especialy at comment #70
something!!!
Well, if the rumors are true, and Microsoft is paying Joystiq to do that, the big cover-up stand with the name “pussy 4 fucking” is explained when you think about the “micro” and “soft” behind XXX Oz’s curtain. They’re out there to overcompensate and “XBOX” won’t quite neutralize it for me :)
(altough I think the XXXtreme may bait many)
(or they’re just aware that geekier kids will have more trouble if shouting out a lingo for penis around older bullies).
“And I hope everyone commenting here is using this opportunity to examine his or her own beliefs. I know I am.”
I second Richie here.
I consider myself as a straight ally. I helped many LGBT mouvements in San Francisco carlifornia. One day, one of these members discoverd i liked video game and suggested me this site. I know much of the homosexual culture but I must admit that I am ignorant to some issues and this site help me a lot about how to be more tolerant among LGBTs people. And I believe this is an important debat : the uses of “Fag” and “Gay” in every day gamers speech. I never used those words unless brought up to me (“Why do you hang with those Faggots” me: “To avoid guys like you!”) but I do admit it is greatly used in MMORPG even from the country I was born and raised in, France : “Cet armur fait un peu pédé!” (transl: “This armor is a bit faggy!”).
Ignorance is international but as long as we can debate toggeter to issues like these, we can at least help eachother reaching tolerance. One day…
snicks; heh, I knew I was gonna be picked up on the difference between a news site and a blog :P. Apparently I didn’t make it clear. The poster wanted to show a non-gamers reaction while staying perfectly neutral to allow for no influence. He didn’t plan it. He didn’t know the guy was going to make comments like that. And then he posted (note; “posted”, not “reported”) what the results were. There’s probably people in the world who wish Hitler should have had the time to exterminate all the jews, too, just like there’ll always be people who use “faggy” as a derogatory term. This guy JUST HAPPENED to be one of those guys. Too bad, so sad.
Btw, fauxfaia: rofl.
Does calling something gay still always mean you think it’s related to homosexuality?
I have several gay friends who call things gay as a supreme insult; if they, men who sleep with other men, think something is too gay for words, then it must be incredibly so. They’re proud of their orientation and yet they still do this, mostly in reference to something they think is pathetic or is trying way too hard to get their attention.
The African-American community is currently dealing with this debate. Is a hateful slur somehow less prejudiced when used by the people it applies to? I submit no. Nearly all the big rappers submit yes.
Ya know what, people use gay, fag, faggy, and they don’t mean it like that. It’s not homophobic, it’s not bigotry, it’s just what society has trained you to do. I’m not saying it’s not wrong, I’m just saying it’s not homophobic.
Wow.
I started reading this page and was interested… and now that I have… well…. LAME! Quit whining because gay = lame in many people’s diction. You can’t change it. We also wont be able to stop people from saying it, or most other insensitive comments, such as “this argument is retarded”.
My personal opinion, while I suspect my comment may be “moderated”, is that everyone here who is making a big deal out of this is the real problem. That’s right. All this PCness started with some undersexed or oversexed pigs who didnt have the common sense to not be inappropriate. From there it has spiraled out of control and now things are rediculous. Absolutely, positively, rediculous. South Park can show “Stupid Spoiled Whore – Video Playset” and certain networks bombard me, even as I type this, with commercials featuring a wonderful thing (girls) in the most exploitive way possible… and you all wanna spend your time being pissed off that a REPORTER used direct quotes? Albiet derogitory quotes, but if it offends you, don’t read it. There is sooo much better things you can do with your time. I mean, come on.
Pick your battles. I realize this is “gay gamer” and this is about both gay and gamer, but still.
FTR, I love South Park, HATE GGW commercials, am not gay nor a homophobe, and (unfortunately) have not played the Wii yet.