Hate Wins For Now: California's Prop. 8 Upheld
Just a scant hour ago, the California Supreme Court handed down a grim decision. They have decided 6-1 that they will uphold November's vote for Proposition 8. The only silver lining in all this is that they have also voted to uphold the 18,000 same sex marriages performed before the proposition was voted in. This seems a complete dichotomy to me, but I am not the one who makes the laws.
I suppose I had hoped that the decisions made in Iowa, Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts would have some bearing on this but apparently that was not enough. It seems odd to me that California would end up being one of the last states in the country that would recognize same sex couples. Apparently the state that I left and have chosen to come back to is not as liberal as I had once thought.
As I sit here writing this I can hear the helicopters circling overhead and the crowds at City Hall across town, angry and happy shouts mixed together to form a dull roar. It's a sad day here in California, one that I plan on spending inside. Perhaps I will play some Fable II and immerse myself in a bright happy world where I can actually marry a man and have a husband. Funny that I would be hoping that real life would emulate the moral values of a video game. Sadly, it seems the only thing California and Fable II have in common now are the evil trolls. There will always be evil trolls, we just have to figure out how to vanquish them.
Fruit Brute
Posted to Hot Stuff, Miscellany, Site News on 26 May 2009
· Comments (23)
Other stuff like this: california, fable II, gay, proposition 8
Well CA continues to go against the image I have of it. I don't know when it'll be too much and I leave for someplace more reasonable. But it looks like it might happen soon.
The trouble here, is that people seem to think that California is this liberal state when it's really not. As liberal as San Fran and Hollywood is, the rest of the state is that much more conservative. I hear it ALL THE TIME that they're suprised that this happened, and I just have to ask where they think they are? Thank goodness that at least Cali chose to desegregate the south even though the "majority" didn't want that either.
*sigh*
Yeah, Prism is right. California is the equivalent of two or three states thrown into one. You can divide by the city and the country, but given the fact that Prop 8 passed in the first place, it can't even be that stark of a contrast. Even the cities might not be as tolerable as they seem.
Or, I should say, for all their toleration in public, people's feelings at home and in the booth paint an unfortunately different picture.
('Toleration' is a stupid term anyway. We shouldn't even need to be measuring the extent to which people's liberty is allowed.)
Egh.
As a fellow Angeleno, you know what can i say? It's depressing...not surprising.
I say we get the ugliest and most vile hood rat trannies and drag queens to go to the mormon tabernacle and yell fashion insults at them.
It is my sincerest hope that everyone that voted for and that supports prop. 8 get inoperable ass cancer.
The tricky thing about this ruling is that they weren't voting *for* Prop 8. The ruling was to support a 'majority vote' and not to repeal what the majority voted for. Which is why the 16k couples were allowed to keep their marriage license and it leaves the door wide open for it to go to another vote.
Keep your guys' heads up, it's a slow journey, but we'll get there. Baby steps :D
Brute
Or you can just move out of California to one of the many states you mentioned, rather than continue to give your tax dollars to a State institution you claim doesn't represent you. It might be hard, and there would be sacrifice, but that's what serious people do when they want to fight for serious issues.
Also, its probably not a good thing to equate all of CA with trolls, because nearly half the state voted to keep gay marriage in. Most (voting people) didn't, however, and when the loonies stop rationalizing why they can get back to work and try their battle again. Bitching and moaning won't do anything, other than confirm outdated stereotypes. Neither will grouping 'everyone' together.
My vote? Just move...if you're really serious and gay marriage means that much to you, then move. Or fight, but random bitching on a gaming blog (totally inappropriate place, btw) won't do anything other than upset others and yourself.
p.s.
also, despite what you may have heard or believe, marriage (at least in the USA) is primarily a religious institution. This is probably why its having so much trouble gaining acceptable as you're asking the majority of Americans to alter their religious beliefs (or misunderstanding of those beliefs) to satisfy a minority group.
Why not alter the movement and concentrate on equal - i.e. legal - protection under the law? Just remove the word 'marriage' and honor the term 'separation from church and state', therefore keeping the argument solely on ALL couples (couples of course meaning two people) receiving the same treatment under the law? There are thousands of Churches (just in CA alone) that will perform the marriage ceremony, so there's no 'law' against gay marriage. Its just for equal protection... change the semantics and you'll be surprised at how inclusive people really are.
Lastly, let's not forget that our current President is also against gay marriage, as is the secretary of state. Let's not delude ourselves thinking that higher authority will prevail. NO key civil 'right' has ever been decided by the people; civil rights, suffrage, etc. What makes you think this will be any different?
Sadly, the court probably did the 'right' thing here legally - I don't blame them. The court, which had previously been quite open to gay marriage, said that Prop 8 trumped their own previous rulings on the matter. Which is how the broken proposition system is supposed to work; the real travesty was that Prop 8 passed in the first place. The trolls have spoken. The good(?) news is that I think gender preference equality is inevitable as more dumb old people die. Think how it was just 20 years ago.
Super Dooper:
Can it. You're the one bitching.
This is a gay gaming blog. We come here to read news from a gay point of view. Flynn is well within his right to occasionally discuss an issue so important to gay people. If you don't like it, don't read it.
You're also flat out wrong about marriage. We are fighting precisely for *CIVIL* marriage equality. Marriage is a civil contract, and the benefits come from our *SECULAR* government.
Unless you think my atheist brother and his wife should have their *MARRIAGE* annulled and replaced with a "civil union"...?
oldtaku is correct. The court ruling dealt with the LEGALITY OF THE PROPOSITION not its contents.
Of course that does not make good headlines so the false issue will be reported.
We live in a 'democracy' (despite efforts of the previous and current administrations) so the majority gets what it wants (in theory at least)
The No on 8 groups were simply out politiced and should get over it.
N.B. I have not said that I think the goal of Proposition 8 to be laudable. Quite the contrary, but crying about it isn't going to get things done.
James: You are exactly right. The court's power is limited by the fact that California's constitution only requires a simple majority of 51% to be amended.
If you read the ruling, they contrast that with how much more difficult it is to change the Federal Constitution. There have been 27 amendments to the Federal Constitution, but something like over 300 to California's.
They said the opposition's arguments boiled down to "it just shouldn't be this easy to change a constitution." It shouldn't be, but it is.
They also said the constitution doesn't explicitly say anywhere that minority rights cannot be voted on, or that there is such a thing as an inalienable human right that is not subject to any modification. I think it's total crap, but that's what the ruling says.
Basically, California's constitution is fucked up. Which is probably why the state is going bankrupt too. Because when you allow citizens to vote on every issue, they vote for a fantasy world of no taxes and free beer, as Bill Maher recently put it.
sad day indeed
With all do respect, it was not simple hate that ended in the passing of prop 8, it was the fact no one asked the people first.
I was/am and will always be against prop 8, However the day I heard that the court over turned the laws of California without a vote I knew it was all over for people who think gay marriage should be allowed. In fact every thing that has happened to this day I predicted that day (ask any of my friends, it is no exaggeration).
My best friend, who does not have a single homophobic bone in his body voted "yes", when I asked why, he replied simply "They should have put it to a vote and given me a chance to give my opinion first."
He was beyond pi**ed that the court decided for him. He was pi**ed people like Gavin Newsome was going all over the place saying "Don't like it? Tough!"
Believe it or not, I heard that reason more than once. You might say all these people are Homophobes, but I know these people, I work with them, lived with them and have been privy to their thoughts and ideals for a long time, and not one said anything that fits in to the mold of "homophobia" that is so freely thrown around.
Want Prop 8 to end? Do it the right, legal and democratic way... Get the signatures, put it to the people, make a legitimate argument and keep idiots out of the limelight.
I Wait for the day prop 8 is overturned, but anything short of the way I have presented will result in more pain and anger.
You may not think your best friend is homophobic, but he sure is selfish and cold-hearted. He voted to take away the joy of marriage from thousands of people just because nobody asked him if that's what he wanted.
Art said:
"You may not think your best friend is homophobic, but he sure is selfish and cold-hearted. He voted to take away the joy of marriage from thousands of people just because nobody asked him if that's what he wanted."
Any more selfish than imposing what one person wants over another without giving them a chance to have/voice an opinion?
And I don't "think" that he is not homophobic, I put my life on that fact.
You are not happy that some one took your rights away, correct?
Does he not have the right to feel the same way?
DO it right, earn it and fight for it the right and proper way and we will win. Force the subject, scream, rant and attack and we will lose again and again.
That's the lesson you should take from the states that accept gay marriage.
Blaming a person for having a different opinion wins nothing at the end of the day.
The "Yes on 8" campaign was much better organized than the "No on 8" campaign. The "Yes on 8" people purposely worded the proposition in an unclear way and used misleading ads to get what they wanted.
That won't happen again. This kind of a day just fuels the fight even more. Our side will be much better organized this time and hold the upper hand. And now with so many other states legalizing it, voters WILL BE swayed this time. And we should get a new democratic governor to boot as well.
Gay Marriage is inevitable everywhere, eventually. I think it will be so in California by 2010.
@ Stone:
I hope your friend gets hit by a speeding bus, because he sounds like a fucking asshole. That's the single most asinine, selfish and petty reason I've ever heard for voting against someone's rights.
Do it the "right, legal and democratic way"? Really? I suppose black people should have waited until there were enough non-racist white people to be given equality too, hmm?
Civil rights are NOT something that should be put up for popular vote. Ever. MY rights should NOT be given or taken away based on someone else's opinion. Period.
Shin Gallon - "I hope your friend gets hit by a speeding bus" - Bravo you just proved all the negative things said about "No on 8" supporters.
Civil rights? Are you F'ing serious? Your comparing the plight of people brought up and out from slavery and true oppression to having the word "married" on a form? I am sure people like Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, and the thousands of others victims who were jailed, beaten, lynched and who suffered countless other heinous atrocities would agree with you entirely...
With all due respect your an idiot, and your the type of person that will keep 8 on the books.
"Gee... I think I will go around wishing painful death and horrible retribution on people who disagree with me because they should do as I say and not have an opinion of their own." Great mentality... Isn't that the exact same level of hatred you are accusing people of disagreeing with you of having?
Sadly the more I try to get people like you to see the truth the more people like you run away and become the things you claim to despise. Sad and pathetic.
Ah well, that's all I am going to add on this subject, this site is about games and that's why I come here. If I want to deal with an angry hypocrite I will hang out more with my dad.
One last thing for you Shin... You seem very happy at the notion of taking away the rights of others to please your own desires... Say isn't that the same thing many people accuse Bush of doing? Why it seems you may be no better than President Bush... How does that feel, if I might ask?
To the rational ones out there, keep fighting the good fight and don't let the anger (or the angry ones) be an anchor.
Repeal 8 in 2010, by the way...
Now back to the games...
Mr. Stone:
First -
"I am sure people like Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, and the thousands of others victims who were jailed, beaten, lynched and who suffered countless other heinous atrocities would agree with you entirely..."
Are you implying this hasn't happened to homosexuals? For God's sake, there are countries in the world were being discovered committing the act of sodomy is an offense punishable by death. And please don't imply any of these atrocities haven't happened to gays here in the states - because they HAVE.
Second -
Just because you give a fancy worded preface (i.e. - "with all due respect") to an insult doesn't make that insult any more qualified to be stated. You calling someone an name, no matter what fancy mask or wording you butter it up with, puts yourself on the same level. You just happen to be on that level of morality with a better vocabulary.
And finally, in respects to your friend -
"My best friend, who does not have a single homophobic bone in his body voted 'yes', when I asked why, he replied simply 'They should have put it to a vote and given me a chance to give my opinion first.'"
Is your friend gay? Is he an expert on homosexuality, the legal system, or predicting what the effects of passing of a law will have on society?
If he is not any of these things, then how does this issue have anything to do with him? His opinion is, to me, invalid and not pertinent on the legal issue at hand. Its the same reason someone five blocks away from a murder who only heard about it because they saw it on the news isn't called in to testify as a witness on the case. No probative value.
What "right" is your friend losing by a higher power granting rights to a group of citizens that puts them on equal legal standing? If he honestly believes that he should deny a group a citizens what they want simply because he wasn't asked, I'm with the others on this thread in feeling your friend is selfish. He's concerned more with own sense of self-superiority of thought than he is with what's truly good for the greater whole.
Now, had he honestly considered the issue for what's it worth and STILL voted 'yes' on Prop 8, I'd at least respect his choice (though my personal feelings disagree). But to say he only voted 'yes' because no one asked him what his opinion was first...? That seems like a rather vindictive reaction bred from selfishness to me.
And for the record, I do not think you are an idiot; although I do question what you believe the "truth" is.
Regards,
~Eric :)
I don't question that he IS an idiot.
Stone K said:
"Any more selfish than imposing what one person wants over another without giving them a chance to have/voice an opinion?"
Nobody asked me if heterosexuals should be allowed to get married. Does that mean I should throw a hissy fit and vote to take marriage away from them?
Stone K said:
"And I don't "think" that he is not homophobic, I put my life on that fact."
I wouldn't ask you to stake your life on that. But you did stake your right to get married on it. And you lost.
Stone K said:
"Does he not have the right to feel the same way?"
He can feel whatever he wants and can even voice his opinion. But that doesn't give him the right to take something away from gay people that the rest of the population has.
For Stone K's friend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPdWWhXAjiY