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Not All Gay Gamers Think Alike

Look at how sad he is!

This morning I woke to a message from my friend Kate, directing me to this Beefjack article concerning a petition. Internet petitions are often the stuff on which dreams are made, and seem more a rallying point that fizzles in inaction than an actual call for accomplishment, but this one was curious. Curious in that it stemmed from this BioWare forum post, and ended in this petition calling for BioWare to fire David Gaider, senior writer on the Dragon Age team--which at first I thought might be an attempt at trolling, or a poor attempt at irony. The former seems more likely than the latter, though gay gamers are being lumped into a single hive-mind.

Why might one desire to see David Gaider fired? After his response concerning the 'straight male demographic,' I believe many in our community would be cheering for him, in fact. No, this gay gamer claims that the fact that Anders can hit on people perpetuates a stereotype that men who sleep with and romance other men are after nothing but sex.

It felt very odd that my male companions kept making passes at me, when I never found any interest or even flirted with them. This sort of thing shows that gays are unable to be normal people and think nothing about sex. This is the type of garbage that has people believe that gays shouldn't serve in the military. We are human beings that are the same as everyone else!

In my estimation, considering one male companion does this (Anders) and yet another does not (Fenris), this shows that the 'gays' in the game are capable of being normal people after all. They are capable of flirting and not flirting. You know, as people do.

As regards the portion about the military, let's look at it this way: the stereotype of homosexuality needing to be something that is shoved back into a closet because it makes other people uncomfortable is one about being tolerated on other peoples' terms. It is not about being accepted, and politely denied. It also mistakes that all gay men want to have sex with straight men, and cannot take no for an answer--an erroneous assumption, and it is that assumption that should be combated, which Dragon Age 2 does not perpetuate.

The petition writer does bring up the fact that the in-game mechanics do have Anders gaining rivalry points if you rebuff his advances. There are two ways I would like to respond to this. The first, from yesterday's post on such, is directly from David Gaider himself: "I doubt I would have Anders make the first move again-- at the time, I thought that requiring all romances to have Hawke initiate everything was the unrealistic part." Second, from the demo of the game, we already knew Isabela would shamelessly flirt with us.

Some have made the point that the self-proclaimed straight male gamer to whom David Gaider responded now knows what it's like to be a woman in our society: someone who receives unwanted and unsolicited passes. This is only partially true, and only on the most surface level. Anders might earn rivalry points, but one can earn friendship points afterward. Had he been overjoyed at rejection, I would likely be in a more critical mindset (if anything, the time details of losing his lover and not really addressing his grieving would bother me more...). After that rejection, Anders does not call you a 'whore,' 'slut,' or any other colorful epithets women in our society can expect from turning down an advance. Even rivals in the game respect Hawke.

Therefore, while I doubt the internet petition would really gain much traction, I did wish to offer an opposing viewpoint. There are many things to criticize in the game, but a game that solely depends on stereotypes to conduct its same-sex relationships? With that I will strongly disagree.

Furthermore, on the behalf of the GayGamer staff, I would like to state we firmly support David Gaider and his efforts to stand up for us.

P.S. We also support giving Anders kitties, preferably a basket-full.

47 Comments

12thGay said:

Don't feed the trolls. That person is not one of us.

Ophenix said:

So they give us sexual diversity and we bitch about it. Sigh...
People suck.

I hit on straight people all the time. I'm not perpetuating a stereotype, I just have a broken gaydar :P

Pauwow said:

Females also flirt with you in the game and I don't think “this behavior gives a negative stereotype about women”. I think is important to pick our fights wisely, if we complain constantly about everything people will stop listening. There is a thin line between complaining and whining and it's extremely easy to cross.

Kateri said:

If it was just the idiotic/trollish forum thread and petition I'd say yeah, ignore and move on. It's the fact that other news sites are apparently reporting it as "Gay Gamers Call for Gaider's Firing" that makes it necessary to say "Um... not here we don't!"

epenthesis said:

What an ass.

EXACTLY KATERI!

I'd ignore it, but we can't have our community looking like we actually want this brave man fired. I posted this on one of the other sites (has anyone been able to respond on Bioware's forums?):

As a long time activist and the out and proud gay winner of The Tester Season 2, I find the petition to be an absolute OUTRAGE. I was in the middle of putting together my top 10 gay gamers video (which I'm making to showcase and bring light to the group) when I heard the news and was disgusted. David Gaider and Bioware have been tremendously supportive of the LGBT community and to turn a small detail about a single character in a game into such an insult, can only be the work of either 1. NOT a gay gamer/TROLL or 2. a gay gamer who does not understand the importance of varied representation (which Bioware and David Gaider have done phenomenally well with their many gay or bi characters). I just want to go on record as FULLY supporting David Gaider and hope you will not give any credence to this disgusting cry for attention and hate. I hope that this troll plan will backfire and will only help to highlight the necessity of open dialogue about fair-mindedness in the gaming industry.

Kenneth said:

David Gaider wasn't even the writer for Anders in Dragon Age II.

Bearfamily said:

I wonder if the people behind the petition are actually gay, or do they just VERY much disagree with David not backing down from bigots? Now that sounds like a rambling from a conspiracy theorist but it is a possibility.

David for what its worth I you have the 100% support of at least 10 gamers (gay and straight) here in rainy south Ireland.

Rosa said:

There is no way this person is actually gay. They're using that as a fortified position to lob hate about the game around and create bad press. That's how much people hate this game and how personally they take it. It's absolutely, positively ridiculous.

I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but this is about par for the course with what I've seen from the DA2 hate machine in the last three weeks. The fact that they're trying to use our platform now just makes me so angry.

Pauwow said:

@Rosa: Actually after I read your post I think you are right, the guy sound like a bad straight actor trying to act "gay". I'm not into conspiracy theories but I agree with you, the part that he jumps from the DA2 subject to "This is the type of garbage that has people believe that gays shouldn't serve in the military" is kind of "eh?! moment". Still, I'm an optimist person, 15 years ago I wouldn't dream of having the option of homosexual relationships in an RPG so...

Joey Angelo said:

I think that this guy is full of it to be honest. Of course I will admit that I had no clue the main character of Dragon Age 2 was gay, and finding out the way I did caught me off guard, yet amused me and surpassed any expectations I had in regards to our gay community being represented in any way. I mean, let's be honest...we are sexual beings, regardless of sexual orientation. There is nothing wrong with that, and to say that we are not flirtatious in any way is to deny everything that makes us human. All I have to say that I thought it was awesome of Bioware to even consider adding such character depth, and honoring our community. Oh, and clearly this guy has ISSUES.

Brandon said:

All one has to do is look at the petitioner and know it's a hoax or the same guy who petitioned before trying another angle.

http://www.petitionspot.com/profile/6220893/Oakland/

I would suggest someone demand they come to the public and show who they are. They created their empty profile in Mar 2011. If anything, Gay Men do flirt, wait just think for a minute, all humans flirt. Now I can't speak to how overt the characters are but I doubt it's really bad. I haven't bought it yet but if it's anything like DA it won't be anything than a small comment.

It's a straight guy who hates the gays, that's my presumption and I'd put money down.

VorpalBunny said:

Kenneth, yeah. Jennifer Hepler's fine work on Anders will be remarked upon more in depth when I write about his romance more fully.

Thanks for the comments, all.

I agree the sexuality of the person in question seems suspicious, but regardless of such, if it is going to be reported as a gay gamer, I want to be sure others know that this sort of notion is not the case here (as others have stated).

Resurgam said:

I want MY life represented in games. DA2 should include characters who don't believe in love and just want to fuck. They should include cutscenes showing the characters getting drunk and having conversations about social injustices. And at least ONE character should distribute a zine about the rights of Fereldan refugees.

magritte said:

I'm kind of suspicious of this guy, too. I did have sympathy for those who felt Zevran was stereotypical, but nobdoy demanded Gaider's job over that. Even if it is the honest opinion of a gay gamer, it seems bizarre to call for Gaider's job, given that there are WAY more stereotypical portrayals of gays in the media out there to attack.

Briker Ed said:

The dude's straight & hating on giving gay topics so much space in DA2.
That's how I see it.

There's been considerably more effort put into the whole 'gay thing' in this instalment which makes it more visible and less avoidable. Now you often can't anticipate the 'straight route'. I think that this is the real problem the petitioner has.
That, just like in real life, you can't separate the straights from the gays.

Now let's generalize things a bit:

Not so long ago video games were almost exclusively either straight, or if they did have a gay character, they were, for the most part, horribly stereotyped to first serve as an amusement to the straight player and then as a lame half-assed easy route to 'try' to appeal to the gay player. Like a bonus. If it happens - it happens.... if not, hey, at least we amused the first group.

There ARE some good examples, of course, and not every straight player is like that, but I'm lead to think the majority might be - when stripped down to bare bones.

NOT one of us. I was rather charmed by how well written the romances were.

Leave Anders alone! The poor mage gets enough flak being a mage as it is!

Deon said:

I'm praying that he wasn't serious because lol-drama queen.

I saw nothing in Anders that meant he only cared about sex. So, yeah...this here's a troll. We shouldn't feed them.

sleep fighter alpha said:

I can say with 100% certainty that petition is the work of a straight troll.

The biggest giveaway is the petitioner's use of the clinical term homosexual. You will never hear any self respecting gay people identify themselves with the word homosexual because the word is a throwback to when homosexuality was on the books as a mental disorder.

The posts from "FireDavid" (who clearly identifies as straight in their first post) share the same clinical detachment, phrasing and grammatical errors as the petition written by someone who claims to be ga- "homosexual". A simple IP check would probably lead the Bioware forums staff to this idiot's real forum account.

Mattchu said:

If Anders was easy, well, some people really are that way!! I tried just using him for sex, but the next thing I knew, he had moved in with me and saying he loved me. oh well, guess I'll have to get Fenris in my next playthrough!

Oh, and I know people who will flirt with straight people and not even realise what they're doing, so maybe Anders is just a bit naive? (He did let a demon inside him, after all!)

Agree with all you, this guy must be a troll. I loved DA2 and can't wait to play through again(once my C.P. finishes his turn!)

Henshin A Go Joe said:

*****UPDATE: David Gaiter's Response*****

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/6776790/5#6783294

Quote: I kind of wonder if this is someone's attempt to stir up more hate against BioWare by claiming to represent a group they're not even part of? In addition to being misleading, I mean.

Of the characters you can romance in the game, Merrill and Fenris will not make any kind of romantic overtures unless you flirt with them first. Period. Anders, meanwhile, does indeed come onto you in his first quest-- if you are nice to him. If you turn him down then, you get some rivalry points (which are not a punishment-- rivalry is a path towards a relationship just as friendship is) and that's the end of it.

If someone wants to paint that as sexual predation or an example of "all gays" when it's not even an example of all the potentially gay relationships in the game -- that's pretty laughable. But there's no shortage of ignorance, and evidently no shortage of people with an axe to grind. Which is too bad.

If someone wishes to take out their anger on me personally, I suppose that's fine. I'm an easy target, speaking as I do on these forums. I'm quite glad I get the opportunity to include more gamers in our content, and I couldn't do so without the explicit support of my superiors -- but that won't stop some people from being very unhappy in general.

So shine on, you crazy diamonds. But spreading hate on these forums is unwelcome-- not just against me, but in general. I'm sure there are other places on the internet where such ignorance is welcomed.

-David Gaiter

Luc said:

That's sad, and annoying. Hopefully BioWare and Gaider see that "petition" as the load of malarky that it is. I'm suspicious of the author's genuineness, like some others have suspected, he sounds like a fraud. But if he's not, I pity him and want to smack him, both at the same time. There's a psychology behind that petition which is worrying, whoever wrote it needs therapy. And life experience.

JeffreyOSU said:

"So shine on, you crazy diamonds."

ROFLMAO

Luc said:

Thanks for the update, Mattchu! Also, I took another look at the forum posts by the guy who started the petition - FireDavid is his username. He is definitely a fake, without a doubt. His first few posts on the first page of the forum thread give him away, he wasn't even trying to disguise the fact that he's not gay at that point.
What a jerk.

Greg said:

As the commenters have noted, this is very likely not an actual gay gamer.

It's sort of disheartening that there are people out there who are so bent out of shape by one unwelcome advance in a video game. What do they think it's like playing games where the only romantic options for your male character are female? You can say 'no' to him and that's the end of it.

I'm so pleased with the way Dragon Age 2 handles the sexuality of its love interests, and relationships with your party members in general, and I hope nobody there takes this petition seriously.

g_whiz said:

Anders may have made the first move, but it was out of genuine romantic interest. Implicitly NOT a quickie, or casual sex. If this supposed gay gamer feels that all gay men are and should be passive and neutral until the topic is approached...then he's got some issues he needs to work through. Also? What. A. Dick.

TangeryneBear said:

great so in the first forum post we were lumped into a non-male category, just representing "5%" of the gaming community. Gaider steps in and basically calls the gaming community as a whole equal, and that it wasn't written for "the straight male gamer".
now some douche/troll decides they want to cause a ruckus and have that man fired. and of course...yet again gays are lumped together petitioning against said man.
i didn't realize being gay automatically makes me pro/anti something.
oh yeah, i forgot we all had to check our brains at the door and lead the way with whats in our pants, when we "became" gay.

Bearfamily said:

In the thread that started all this the OP has said in his rebuttal that he finds Homosexuality "disgusting" then says that it has no bearing on why he posted. Its in TangeryneBear's post above there in the non-male highlighted link. Yeah I don't buy that.

David Gaider said:

I just wanted to say that I'm humbled by the unexpected show of support. The response over the last week to the post I made has been more than a little surprising, but also gratifying. While there are a lot of hateful people out there, it's nice to see that there are also people who are everything but.

Arid said:

You're the palm frond of my conversation wheel, David Gaider.

lowprices said:

No David, thank YOU for going to the bat for the inclusion of gay romances in Dragon Age. It's heartening to know that at least some people in gaming are interesting in catering for those of us on the fringes.

SoupGoblin said:

Another vote of thanks here as well, David! As wonderful as the games are (and they really, really are) the ability to choose EVERYTHING about your character, from appearance and morals down to who they fall in love with is easily my favorite part. It really does assist in connecting to the character in such a deep, personal way.

But next time throw in a bearish-type guy as a choice! ;P

Gogoedward said:

Thanks David, no seriously thanks. It's good to know people are willing to speak up.

Good lookin' out Bro.

blanders said:

Fire him? They should have let him run the show. Maybe then DA-2 would not have been so mediocre. Gaider created Alister, Morrigan and Zevran in DA:O (the best characters), and wrote the best character of DA-2, Fenris... gay romancing Fenris is pretty much the only high point of DA-2.

dbmountain said:

I find it utterly hilarious that this troll thinks a petition could get David fired in the first place. Bioware is a private business and it has no obligation to be representative of the people. Why would they even consider firing someone just because the public voted on it? Besides, all of Gaider's superiors (IE the people that are even capable of firing him) must approve and support the characters he has created or else they never would have made it into the game in the first place, further enforcing that no ridiculous petition could affect Gaider's job

Bearfamily said:

xxxxx thats just YAWN worthy trolling,

Number 1: nobody in the posts supports the petition, in fact the opposite is true with a counter petition being advertised on the site.

Number 2: Overtly offensive language just to inspire responses? You need to head back to troll school as that tactic stopped working years ago. I suggest heading to the WoW forums for tips.

Number 3: even the guy who posted the petition had more trolling credibility for at least making a semi-transparent attempt at trolling.

Monkeypants said:

You got linked from the Escapist, so I'd expect a flood of commenters - some of them trolls - starting right about now.

I can't decide whether the anti-Gaider petition poster is a troll bigot or a troll with gay self-hate issues. Gaider's response to the straight whiner a couple of days ago was a punch-the-air moment for me.

I've played few games in which gay romance is possible, most of the from BioWare and Dragon Age 2 is the first in which I felt like the gay romance option involved choice. When I found both Fenris and Anders were romance options, I wondered, just for a moment, if this is what it felt like to be a straight player.

I suspect I'm not yet halfway through the game, and if there's one thing I wouldn't complain about in this game, it's the writing.

Well, maybe the serial-killer plot...

saxybeast418 said:

Excellent article! I have a question: is Anders as forthcoming to a female character as he is to a male? Or are the relationships asymmetrical? I haven't played the game yet, so I cannot comment. Nonetheless, I really support what David Gaider is doing. Even as a part of the entitled majority, I found his piece very moving.

Any criticisms against the romance subplots, dialogue options, etc. can really only be legitimate from a design perspective. This guy's motivations are clearly in the right place, at least for those of us who support respect for all genders and orientations, regardless of gender and orientation.

(LONG POST INCOMING)

Anyway, I do scratch my head a little at every character having romance options for either gender. Originally, I thought it was just the designers being lazy, as everyone being bisexual is so implausible. But then I realized that this isn't inherently bad or lazy design, it's simply challenging my preconceptions. To go from bisexuality being ignored to arguably overrepresented is a step in the right direction, IMO.

If I had to make suggestions for improvement (and David Gaider is clearly a reflective person who will improve on this experience in his future work), I would start with not having things be so symmetrical. I am all for fair treatment, but fair doesn't necessitate quotas. I feel like as long as each player has like 3 options, there's no reason why everyone has to have the same number of options. Seeing as how everyone besides straight males have been mostly ignored by the gaming industry, I would love to see a future game where the straight male has 3 romance options, and female and homosexual characters had some more choices.

Next, I would suggest not making everyone uniformly bisexual. While it is refreshing to have most of the characters be bisexual, there's no reason why an exclusively heterosexual or homosexual character couldn't be thrown in as well. It would accomplish your goal of pushing boundaries and conceptions while simultaneously escaping any accusations or errors of lazy design.

I think what all of this is leading to (and what has been a clear pattern in Bioware's writing) is an evolution towards fully believable, organic, and moving portrayals of relationships, romantic, sexual, or platonic, in video games. The thing that I love about Bioware's work is that not only is it usually incredible in its own right, but it also gives me a glimpse of what the medium can become. Take Mass Effect 2: while it was an incredible and satisfying experience, I also saw what could be. Whereas now each player simply mans his or her own station on the ship, and a relationship boils down to choosing the "let's make love" dialogue options whenever you can, I see a future where technology and experience allows for the characters to move around the ship and form relationships with one another. Not simply spouting out canned routine "how's the space weather" dialogue, but real organic conversations that are unique to each player's experience.

I know that this is currently impossible, and to their credit, I was emotionally moved and attached to most of the characters in Mass Effect 2. Hell, especially with Tali, I rarely felt like I was pushing the "relationship" button, but actually learning more about her and forging a human connection to the character.

In terms of the immediate future, I think that Bioware's next step is to continue character development, especially in regards to romance options. Relationships are complex and diverse, even moreso when it comes to sexuality. For example, maybe a bisexual character can engage in relationships with both sexes, but is more inclined to romance one over the other. Perhaps certain characters will only engage in sex with one gender, and fall in love with someone of another gender. Maybe a character is torn between you and another party member. There is a lot of nuance to explore, and I for one cannot wait to see what they do next.

Gogoedward said:

Next time you want to make a point and contribute to a conversation, and yes that includes both sides of the argument at hand, try including a name "anon."

Mounce said:

At first I was like: "Oh, these points might be valid..."

Then as I read on I was like: *facepalm* OK! Enoughs enough!

No, it's not a stereotype of 'gays can't be normal', its just this morons' variable and pessimistic/negative deduction with no grounded proof to being accurate which means basically, these god damn whining bastards are accusing the Writer in question, David Gaider, of having done such things in-game for a motive of causing negative generalizations. The problem is, it's his 'OPINION' that is backed up by nothing except a lone analysis that could easily be false.

If a gay person hits on you and say, Anders doesn't know if you, the CHAMPION, Hawke! Is gay/straight or bi, so, he makes a move on you, who the fuck wouldn't when you're 'The Goddamn Champion!' I'm sure every alien, creature, race, ethnicity or whatever would want to romance him, Lol. Noted too if you decline someone who tries to flirt with you, course they're probably going to feel downed a bit, so the 'Rivalry' that comes afterwards could just be translated to 'Anders' feeling saddened by such an answer, it doesn't make him angry or change his stances of friendship with Hawke and he definitely moves on with his life. He doesn't cause a drama-fuss and he lets it go as if it never happened 'Like a normal person would'.

If anything, the person who STARTED all of this IS a stereotype themselves who can't handle but get hurt and over-dramatize a situation, making all those around said-person question why the hell they have to over-exaggerate a problem and dig themselves a molehill over something so miniscule and groundless in reasons. I'd personally question what kind of negative imagery this 'Whiner' is causing on the readers of this, will the audience question "Wow, homosexuals sure do fucking whine for stupid reasons" [/InsertGeneralizationForComplainer]

So, I say we all tell the over-dramatic person to shut the hell up, its their own personal opinion, albeit a non-intelligent nor fool-proofed or by all means 100% reasonable, it's just a complaint made by someone with a narrow-mind themselves who can't change negative-perception to something Neutral or positive and they have to cause a scene.

My Two cents(It's worth MILLIONS OF DOLLARS! I'm just being modest!)

RJ said:

Let me chime in with my 2 cents that I also don't think that questionable "gay gamer" is actually gay. I'm currently playing a male Hawke character in Chapter 3. Unless my experience with Anders is different from everyone else's, he is certainly not written as thinking of nothing but sex. While it was quite easy to jump into the sack with Isabela for a one night stand (or the implied friends-with-benefits relationship), it seems to take 3 years in game time before you can get Anders to the point of actual romance after responding positively to his initial extremely mild flirty remark. I've had my character flirt with Fenris as well, but it seems to take even longer to romance him, to the point I decided to commit to Anders, rather than wait for further response from Fenris. Maybe I'll try Fenris again in a subsequent game.

@saxybeast418 ... re: comment suggesting characters shouldn't be bisexual. Actually, the ONLY companion character whose dialogue seems to even hint at bisexuality is Isabela. Every other romanceable character is either gay or straight - FOR THAT PARTICULAR PLAY-THROUGH, depending on the gender of your player character. The only true bisexual character in the game IS the player character - if you flirt with both male and female companions.

aim2game said:

I think the issue the LGBT(QIAP-alphabet soup) community has right now is that we want to prove that we are "normal" or "just like everyone else", when in fact we aren't. We are not like everyone else, we are gay, bisexual, lesbian, queer etc. If we where "normal" we would all be heterosexual, middle class, white men. That is what society deems as normal. And face it not even all heterosexual people are "normal".

Another thing, that I hate about the gay community is that we try to fight stereotypes, that aren't stereotypes but simply biology. Gay men aren't slutty or promiscuous. In fact we are just as promiscuous as straight men. The ONLY difference is that you see it twice as much because it involves 2 men! It is acceptable for a straight man to hit on women, and prove that he is a fertile, alpha male. Society sees two gay men doing it and then it is doubled, and frowned upon. A. Because it is two men, B. Because what does fertility have to do with gay sex. We are also deems sluts much as a woman sleeping with a man is. A woman should not have sex until she is married or in a long term relationship, but a straight man should have sex to prove his dominance. Gay men cannot get married, and by having one man submit to another man's dominance he is feminizing himself, thus stripping himself of the masculinity that comes with having sex.

The worst part about all of this is that instead of being accepted as gay, bisexual, lesbian etc. we are conforming ourselves into a heterosexual archetype in order to be "normal". We want to have kids, get married, not be seen as promiscuous. We will be the stereotypical modern family with 2.5 kids and a dog. Masculine gay men are rarely featured in the media, it is a average "normal" gay man and then a effeminate gay man when coupled because it is easier to relate to heterosexual coupling. And the gay community is buying into this media coverage as good. Even if it isn't realistic. We as a community need to represent ourselves accurately and not take any media representation. We shouldn't keep trying to strive to be seen as "normal" because we aren't, NOBODY IS!

PS: Vasectomy ad? Really? I guess some of the transitioning folks and bisexual men might be interested in that. Just a bit odd.

NaviFairy said:

I think the headline is the most important part to remember here: Not all gay gamers think alike. Being gay isn't specific to any religion/ethnicity/background/economic standing/idealogy/etc., and so anyone claiming to represent the entirety of the gay community, or even a subset of the community like gay gamers, will inevitably be proven wrong. Even here at GayGamer we don't always agree on every issue, and in those cases we like to provide multiple articles on the topic to show the breadth of opinions.

Arts1000 said:

At last we have true equality .


It is true some guys ( like all men ) are indeed bold, even rude with their desire and ....certain others ( like all men ) in any situation , can be dull , foolish or completely off the mark .
You ( Mr Petition) can be forgiven for not understanding but shame on you all the same .

We have so few voices and even less class acts in gaming ......
Deep Bow to Bioware .....thank you so very very much .

Redem said:

Spoilers for DA2 for thoses that care

Anders : "I blew up the chantry and manipulated the player to do so, no peace can come between templars and mages because of all the innocent I've killed, because of me the whole world will be turn into flame! I've become the fantasy equivalent of a real-life terrorist and you will have to decide on wheterer or not to kill me by your own hand!"

Audience: Whatever, where the archdemon? how come there's no big army...that's lame!

Anders : "I hit on both girls and guys"

Audience : What?!?!?! *thousands of thread launched*

bio-robot said:

Greetings everybody! Catalog of human population (chp) analysts discovered that each person is really a carrier of a specific program and therefore is a biomachine. He self-regulates (or is managed by someone else) using regulation modes.

EccentricSage said:

Someone called out the petitioner as a troll. Said that in older forum posts, the individual had self identified as straight. These things happen on the internet... People assume roles just to manipulate the emotions of others online, ether to further their viewpoint by creating an illusion that undermines the viewpoints of others, or for the lols.

The whole argument the person made was pants on head retarded, as Anders hits on and rivalry points a female who turns him down as well.

If there is any discussion we should be having, it is one about game mechanics and poor pacing of the story. (Which I'm fairly certain are not Gaider's fault, as he has no control over how his team's work will be implemented.)

And girls who like girls who like rumble packs!

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